Public Program, Bath (UK), 1984

1:26 hours

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Transcription

Public Program. Bath (UK), 7 August 1984.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

It is such a pleasure to come to this old city of Bath.

The Romans who lived here are so much changed today that it is impossible to locate the Romans who lived here. Life has changed in these modern times to a very, very great extent and the ideas about life is also very much changed. As the society has evolved, we reach a point where we start thinking “What next?” As if what Romans wanted, the power – we have enjoyed it now; then they wanted to have money, possessions – we have enjoyed all that, and seen the nonsense of it; and now beyond that we are seeking something more, something that is not known as yet. But there’s a feeling that we have to search something greater, higher, something that is absolute.

This special category exists today in thousands, in millions I should say, all over the world. And this I call as the blossom time, when thousands have to become the fruits. Is a special time, very, very special time mentioned in all the scriptures as the resurrection time, or the time of judgment, or Krita Yuga in the Indian scriptures. It’s very clearly written about Krita Yuga in the Indian scriptures, that at this time people will have connection with the Divine – sakshat. They will get their realization, that they call as “atma sakshatkar” and everything will be done, finished and completed. This is how they have explained these modern times.

But on the other hand, modern time is a time of complete confusion, of complete relativity, where people really don’t know what to do with themselves. The value system that was very primitive in the beginning became somewhat rigid, because of too many boundaries to the movement of life, movement of mind. And then they started breaking the boundaries so much that they have lost all the shape and forms. There’s so much of intermingling into those colors that we had, that it’s hard to recognize what was human being, what is he and what is he going to be.

The question today faces us is this: are we born on this earth to live, have our food, some insurances, and have some children, grandchildren and then to die? It’s something like animal’s life, isn’t it? What’s so great of becoming a human being? So we understand one thing, that human beings have a capacity to do something, something great for the collective, for the people who are surrounding them, for the society in which they live. And this itself has given rise within us to this awakening, that we have to find out a way and method by which we do things for the collective, for the rest of the world. It’s very, very evident, this awareness that we cannot live alone, there has to be some sort of a connection with the whole, and that we should find out that connection by which we can really spread the goodness, the virtuousness, the bliss of peace.

Now the main thing is that when we start doing any such work, or any such social work or any such helpful work for the collective, we develop some sort of an ego within ourselves. Is a very common thing. Like I was a president of one of the organization in India, called President of the Blinds. And when they wanted to invite the governor – see, very prominently these, of very high-ranking families – they had a big quarrel among themselves: who is going to sit next to the governor? I was quite amazed at them, you see. I said, “Because you’ll be facing the blind, and blind can’t see a governor from another person. And what is there to fight about this, that who is going to sit next to the governor?”

And it was so surprising that the fight became so severe that one could not find out any solutions; so I used some humor to say, “All right, what we will do, we’ll put a big plank on top of the head of the governor, and some can sit like sparrows on one side and some can on other side!” And only with that kind of a humor I could neutralize their ideas; because even when they are so educated, they are well-placed in life, they are very well-off people and they want to help others because they think that we must help the poor, the people who need our money or maybe our guidance, and they come out, give their time, money and all that, and they end up so stupidly about that social work.

So it amounts to this, that when we try to help anyone, actually what do we do is to help ourselves. Because we can’t bear it within ourselves, that’s why we are trying to help another person. But the trouble is, the awareness of this is not there, and that’s why people suffer from either the ego or some sort of a conditioning when they come closer to another society.

Like any society, take it now. For example, I’m now in British society we can say, or English society. When I come here, immediately you have to adjust yourself to that society. For example, I wear this red mark. So everybody will laugh at you, make fun of you. Then you’ll start wondering, what is this? And you’ll just rub it off, you see, because you’ll think that something funny is happening. Like in India if you go and if you put on lipstick in the villages, people will say what’s wrong with this lady, why is she putting on lipstick, you see – it’s not supposed to put there. So then everybody will laugh and see that this is something funny she’s doing, and she will try then to adjust herself to their requirements; and that’s how we get into our conditionings.

So either, when you are dealing with the society you either develop your ego, or you develop your superego or your conditioning. So what is the problem, why do we develop these things? We should not. We should stand on our right, we should stand as we are, and we should see the whole world as a witness. So the problem is this, that when you deal with the society you must know that you are the part and parcel of the whole; that everyone you see, whether he is English, Indian or Arabic are all part and parcel of one great being called God Almighty. And when these parts are not awakened, then they think they are separate and they fight among themselves, or they condition each other or they challenge the ego, and like that it goes on. But once they’re aware about this collectivity, that they are part and parcel of the whole, they become one, they start moving in unison.

Like in helium gas experiment they have found out that when you start reducing the temperature of helium gas, all the molecules which were fighting with the heat just cool down, and they become so collective that their movement and everything goes in the same direction, like the birds, they move according to the leader – in the same way the movement starts. This happening has to take place within us when we talk that we have to have peace in this world, we have to have all the best things, and that people should live peacefully and happily. This is what we have to know, that human beings as they are require a transformation. Unless and until they transform to this new awareness of collectivity, they cannot adjust themselves to society, to another person.

Also, you will see that you meet a friend, you say “he’s my friend” or you say “he’s my brother” or “she’s my sister” – this “my” business starts coming, and you feel it’s something very close relationship. But suddenly you discover that “No, he’s my enemy.” And then you can become such enemies that you would not believe that you were ever friends, and that you will also expose the another person to such an extent that you are amazed at yourself. This happens to us because we do not know about the person with whom we are friendly that he’s also part and parcel of the whole; and that we have to awaken that in him, that awareness, so that he realizes that we are all part and parcel of the whole.

Now, within us lies the power to make us collectively conscious. And this power is lying in the triangular bone called the sacrum, which we know as kundalini, but in the Bible it is described as the Holy Ghost. Now this Holy Ghost that we know about in the Bible is very ambiguous for many people, because it is not clearly described what this Holy Ghost is.

And I asked a priest, I said, “What do you mean by Holy Ghost?”

So he said, “I’m agnostic.”

So I asked him, “Then what are you doing there? If you are agnostic, if you don’t believe in it then what are you doing there?”

He says, “I’m doing my job.” So the whole thing boils down to a job for them, when they cannot explain it.

But it can be very clearly explained that this is the power of the Primordial Mother. We have the Father and we have the Son, but what about the Mother? Have you heard of a father and a son without the mother? So this is the Primordial Mother who is the Holy Ghost, and She is the one reflected within us as the kundalini in the triangular bone. Now, this triangular bone is very important because it was called by Greeks as “sacrum”, meaning “sacred”. So they knew about it, that there’s something sacred lying in this place which is a power, or maybe they knew it was the Holy Ghost. Whatever it was, they knew, because they called it the sacrum bone.

Now within us there are seven centers, as I explained to you yesterday in Bristol, that we have seven centers within us which are subtle centers. Now these centers exist within us. But you can ask Me, “Mother, why should we believe?” Ah, you should not, you should not believe Me, but take it scientifically as a hypothesis. And if I prove it to you, then you will know that what I’m saying is true.

So these centers reside within us, and these centers on the outside express themselves, manifest themselves in gross ways in different plexuses, which doctors know about. Now these centers are there, and a very subtler point – like the first center, as I told you, is the center of innocence. The second one is the center of our creativity. The third one is the center of our seeking. We seek food, then we seek shelter, then we seek money, possessions, power, love: all this comes through this center, which manifests outside as the solar plexus.

Above that is the center of – we call it the center of the Mother, because this center is the one that gives you protection. This center has a speciality, that underneath lies the sternum bone. And in the sternum bone, till you are about twelve years of age, the antibodies are created. They are like the soldiers of the Mother and these soldiers are available in the sternum bone, and the sternum bone is in charge of these soldiers all around. Now when there is an attack or when there is something that frightens you, suddenly the sternum bone starts pulsating. When it starts pulsating or moving then as a result of that happening, the antibodies get information – like you get information through the ether; you don’t see the ether, but you can get information – in the same way, they are like radios and they receive the information, and they start attacking, attacking anything that is trying to disturb the personality.

Then above that is the center, what we call here is the Vishuddhi Chakra, is the center where human beings raised their head up. This is the center that has made us a human being, and from this center only rises the ego and superego, because this is the center of collectivity. Because we speak through this center, we talk through this, we have rapport with other people through this, and as a reaction to that, ego and superego is built within us. When that is built within us, we become a personality – I am some, he is some, you are some – at that point we become a person who has the consciousness of I-ness. Like then I’ll say “I like this, I want this.” Say, I will say “I am an Indian,” you’ll say “I am an Englishman.” All these misidentifications start because you become an individual who tries to identify with many things. That’s how we become separated from that power. This is the freedom we get, where we have to ourself learn from our errors and trials what is right and what is wrong.

Then above that lies the center here – is of Christ. This is the window of Christ, I should say. But this center is very important, because this center controls these two institutions of ego and superego. That’s why it is said that Christ died for our sins. When you awaken Christ in that center, then He sucks in these two institutions or these two balloon-like structures. He sucks in, so that our karmas – which are talked of, that we have done bad karmas and we have done this and that – all that goes into it, and our sins and our conditioning all are sucked in. And we enter into the kingdom of God, which is the limbic area in the medical terminology.

But from here you have to pierce through; and this piercing through is the destination, is the destination through which you have to come out, and is placed at the fontanel bone area where you get your baptism. But baptism, as I told you yesterday, is just an artificial exercise. Actual baptism is when this Holy Ghost rises and you start really feeling the cool breeze on top of your head. This is a miracle. It is! Not to believe in miracle is not correct. You should keep yourself open. Even you may be an intellectual, you must be honest about it that if you have not known a miracle, that doesn’t mean there are no miracles and that miracles do not happen. But keep the point of view of a scientist who sees, wants to see for himself if it is so. Now this miracle happens when the kundalini rises, pierces through all these centers and pierces through here.

Now, how these centers are constructed, we should see that also very clearly. We have in our body an autonomous nervous system. “Auto” is a word means “myself.” But who is this self ? Who is this auto? Doctors don’t know about it, they have just given a name, “autonomous.” Now this autonomous has two systems: one is the sympathetic, another is the parasympathetic. Now, the sympathetic system we use when we are in emergency, because supposing we are running very fast, then the sympathetic goes into action and you get a very strong heartbeat. Also the beat is much faster than normal. This is done by the sympathetic activity. You can raise the – raise the, always, the rate of your heartbeat, but it reduces automatically. How? It is done by the parasympathetic, which is in the center. Now these three channels, as you see, are the channels – one on the left-hand side is the left sympathetic channel, but it’s the subtle channel which expresses outside as the left sympathetic. Then right side is the right sympathetic, and in the center is the parasympathetic nervous system, which is also responsible for our evolutionary process.

So now we have evolved up to the human stage. This is not the end, because if it was the end we would have known everything. But we do not know everything. We have to jump into another awareness, which Christ has described – the second birth; but not of flesh, or not of changing clothes or doing something outward thing, but it’s a happening within you that makes you member of some group or you say, “All right, I belong to this group” or “I wear this kind of a dress. I do this kind of a thing.” That’s not the way. It’s actual happening that takes place within you, and that makes you a realized soul.

If you have to become something, if it has to happen within you, then that is the one we should call as the real truth. It has to besomething. You become something. It’s a question of becoming. It is not that you become just a felt on the central nervous system, like you have become a human being. You can feel the dirt and filth, you can see the colors, you can see the beautiful patterns, everything, because you are a human being. But for a dog it doesn’t matter whether it’s dirty, filthy – it doesn’t smell that. So in the same way, when you have to become something higher, then is to be felt on your central nervous system. It’s not just a mental projection to say, “Oh, I believe in this, I believe in that. I don’t believe in that.” It’s not that way at all. It is to be felt on your central nervous system; on your fingertips you have to feel it. And how do you feel it is very spontaneous, because it is a living process. It’s not at all difficult, it’s not at all any way challenging. It is all built in within you; it is extremely simple. Like a seed you are, and once you are planted into the Mother Earth, spontaneously you sprout.

It’s such a spontaneous happening that it is difficult for human beings to believe that you can do it without any effort, or that you cannot pay for it. This is something, for human beings, an impossible situation: now how can you get something without paying? But we get so many things without paying, and if this is the epitome of your evolution, you have not paid for your evolution so far, so why should you pay for it? And there has not to be any effort.

So “Sahaja Yoga” means spontaneous union with the Divine. “Saha” is with, “ja” is born, that is spontaneous, born with you: everybody has a right to get this union with the Divine. The another meaning of the word “Divine” is that the power of God that is all-pervading, which does all the living work – like transformation of flower into fruit, different seasons – all that is living is done by this power. And this Divine, you have to become one. You have to feel it on your fingertips. This yoga also means the deftness, means also the complete knowledge about this divine power, how to handle it, how to work it out and how to use it.

By awakening of this kundalini, as a by-product you get your physical health. I’ve said many a times that cancer cannot be cured by anything else but by the kundalini awakening. Yesterday I explained to you how cancer is caused, and how kundalini clears it out. Most of your diseases come because the centers are out of gear, they have broken their relationship with the whole, or maybe that there’s something lacking in the centers. When the kundalini rises she only nourishes them so well that with that nourishment all these center, your mental, physical, emotional centers get completely satisfied and fulfilled, and they become healthy. With that you get good health, good mind and good balanced emotional life.

But last of all, when she crosses this limit, this is the, this is the place where resides the God Almighty. Now, I’m saying again that you are not to believe Me, because people don’t believe in God also these days. So I say that this is the place of God Almighty on top of your head, but He is reflected in your heart as spirit; and as soon as the kundalini touches that seat, the hands start flowing with cool breeze in the hand. First you feel the cool breeze of your own kundalini coming up and then the grace starts flowing through you, and you feel the grace in your hand as cool breeze flowing.

So it happens. Once it happens you have to establish yourself a little bit, you have to understand it, what it is and how to keep it established. It takes at the most for some people only one day but some people a month or so, and then you become the master. You become a different personality, you become so powerful and so compassionate; very compassionate and very powerful like Christ, you see. When people were trying to throw stones at Mary Magdalene – she was a prostitute, and He stood against it. He had nothing to do with prostitutes as such, but He stood against all the people and He said, “Now those who have not committed any sin can throw the stones at Me.” And nobody would do it, because He’s such a powerful, compassionate person.

And that’s what it is, you become a person identified with truth. You are not afraid of anyone, you always tell the truth and will tell with great power. Like you had a great poet like William Blake, who has said about these modern times that at this time the men of God – means the people who are seeking God or who are believing in God – will become prophets and they’ll have power to make others prophet.

This is exactly what Sahaja Yoga does, that you get your realization and you start giving realization to another. Like an enlightened light can enlighten another light which is not enlightened, and then that enlightened light can enlighten many other lights. Is simple as that. There’s nothing to take or give, it’s just a catalyst, that you enlighten another light and that person enlightens another light. So there is no obligation, there’s nothing give and take, but it’s just a simple happening that you can understand. This Dr. Warren himself has given realization to thousands of people. Even in Madras I could not go, I sent him and he gave realization to three hundred people.

Like in India we have somebody who has given realization to ten thousand people. It’s a fact. And you can verify it. When you yourself get your realization you’ll be surprised that you can give realization to people and you can cure them. You can give them peace and bliss of God. Then at that time you become collectively conscious; you become part and parcel of the whole. Like many people had the catch yesterday on the Vishuddhi Chakra – because of certain reasons, some troubles, some had spondylitis, some had something – and they couldn’t cross this thing. Only they had to say three times, “Mother, I am the part and parcel of the whole,” and they started feeling the cool breeze. It’s so simple as that. And they started feeling the cool breeze, because they were obstructed here. So it’s very simple methods which even a child can do, which you can do is there, and I hope today in this place which is so beautiful, Bath, we will all receive this realization.

May God bless you all.

If you have any questions, you should ask Me. But yesterday two persons asked so many questions. I wasted lot of time with them and then they walked out. They were just people sent by some guru or someone who was just trying to ask questions, identified with some wrong gurus. And here are so many people sitting at your back who have been to all kinds of wrong gurus, and we had to treat them and get them better. Some were suffering from epilepsy, some from cancer, some from this and some from that, and they paid for it, getting all these diseases and troubles. Some have ended up in the lunatic asylums. So I would request you, don’t be identified with these gurus. Even if you have paid – forget it. Doesn’t matter. Don’t be identified with them. Be identified with your Self. And this is your property, it’s your own, you should know it. That’s what is My humble request to all of you.

May God bless you. Thank you very much.

[Yogi: Any questions?]

[Audience question, repeated by a yogi: I’ve found some benefit in a Tibetan humming meditation known as Nada Brahma. Is this meditation compatible with Sahaja Yoga?]

Not at all. Not at all. You see, this Nada Brahma is, what is the benefit one gets is that you go on humming and humming like that, and a day will come when your head will be humming all the time. Now I’ll tell you the reason for that, it’s like this. Supposing we say anything, like we start saying “Aum” or “Hum” or anything, we do not become. Supposing I say “I am the governor of this place” – do I become? If I say I am “Aum” – do I become? By saying thing, can we become something? If we profess something, do we become? Something has to happen within. Unless and until that happens, it has no meaning, it’s all outside. You can say anything. Somebody can say I have some benefits because I have been saying prayers. That’s not the thing. It’s a complete transformation that you must have.

And these are very dangerous things, very, very dangerous; because in the Tibet now, for example, Lama himself is a mess, I tell you, he’s a big mess. I went to China with My husband and I was really amazed – you might call it a propaganda, whatever it is – to see in Lhasa this gentleman accumulated such wealth that it could be compared with the wealth of Pope. He used to take his wine in a full gold goblet which was all carved, and he had number of them. His plate was made of gold, his everything was made of real gold. And from where did he get this money? Imagine – from these Tibetans who were poor people. They are so poor: they have no clothes, nothing to cover themselves. I don’t say Communism is a very good thing, but what I say, that these people really exploited them. The whole of that Lhasa exhibition was such an eye-opener. Oh God! These people have looted these poor people, and how much they have suffered. If you go and see now Tibet, you’ll be amazed. The people don’t know, they are so confused. They don’t understand. They have given everything that they had to this Mr. Lama. He’s touring now everywhere; no one knows what is he up to. What benefit can they give? It’s a myth.

The best benefit is that you become a master. You know each and everything. You know what is kundalini, you know how to give realization other, and everything you must do. That’s the main thing. In the beginning, you do feel nice with anything, even with a drink. For the time being, in the same way, if you are humming somebody’s name you might get possessed for a while and you may feel all right. Like T.M. has the same problem. T.M. people do some mantras: for the time being they feel relaxed because somebody else comes into your mind, he takes over and he starts managing your show. And when he starts managing your show, you feel relaxed. But relaxation is not the thing. You do not become a master.

That’s the point is: when you become one with the whole, then you are relaxed because nothing is exhausted. All the time you are relaxed. But see these lamas how they look, all wrinkled, you know, you can count their wrinkles one by one. Horrible people. You cannot say that they have anything great about them. And what good have they done? I haven’t seen any lama doing any good to anyone. I had a chance of sitting next to this Dalai Lama once in a dinner party when My husband was with the Prime Minister and he was called, and because the Prime Minister’s wife would not sit, so I was sitting next to him, and I felt so hot. And the Prime Minister was Lal Bahadur Shastri and he just could – he knew all about it, about Me and he said, “Are You feeling very hot with him?” because he was a realized soul himself.

I said, “Yes, terrible.”

He said, “All right, then put the another foreign minister in between.” He made Me sit on the other side and the foreign minister sat there.

Till you are realized you will not know. And also I must tell you, when you go to these people it’s difficult for you to get realization – that also is there; because they create a problem within you. With any effort you go onto sympathetic nervous system. Any effort, as I told you, you go to sympathetic nervous system, so your sympathetic gets activated. When your sympathetic gets activated, you either move to the left or to the right. When you move to the left, you go to the collective subconscious. That is the place which is all dead within us since our creation. And cancer, as I told you yesterday, is caused by the entities from that area. And if you go to the right side – most of these lamas put you on the right. Do you know, Hitler was guided by Lama? Dalai Lama was his guru. He taught him how to capture the minds of people and put them onto this kind of a thing. It’s a well-known fact. It was Dalai Lama was his guru. All these lamas are like that.

But when you are realized, then only you will know what they are. Like My grand-daughter is, was about five years – she’s a realized soul; while My daughter and son-in-law were not realized souls. And once they went to Ladakh and the lama was sitting, you see, on a mount. And everybody was going and bowing to him, but she didn’t like it. And when the parents went and bowed to him she got very angry – she was only five years. She just put back her hands like this, stood before him. She said, “By wearing this maxi, do you think you have become a realized soul? You are not. You have no business to ask people to bow before you. What business have you got?”

And they were so shocked and embarrassed, they said, “Don’t say like … ”

“No, why did you bow to him? He’s not to be bowed.” Just imagine!

But unless and until you are realized …. Also it’s very difficult, because they have a very nice business propositions, they have very nice advertising agencies. Like the other day I went to Spain, I was shocked. There’s another thing these lamas have started, that we have to go to Gobi Desert, Gobi Desert. Now imagine! That Gobi Desert is a place where you go for even one mile, you’ll be finished. For nirvana you go to Gobi Desert. So take all the money from the people now, they prepare nicely and take crowds of people to Gobi Desert. Poor things are walking towards their death – and they call “it’s a nirvana.” They never return. So they have gone to their nirvana, they are not returned. This is how they are working it out.

I’ve had people in England – there was one fellow called Omkar. His name was given as Omkar by some – I don’t know what lama gave him that name, because normally they don’t have Omkar name. So I said, “Who gave you this name?”

He said, “I went to a monastery.” And what happened? All his bones were broken. He said, “They beat me on my back.” Just imagine. How can that be? All his bones were broken. And it was impossible to give him realization, because physically it was impossible. But slowly and steadily he is now recovering. He’s like a madman. How can you be cruel? So Tibetans, are they very realized souls, you think? What is there to learn from Tibetans?

Anybody who is foreign need not be a learned personality. Whatever is written in the book need not be a scripture. You should understand that all these things have come up just after Buddha’s death. It has happened with every religion, with every great personality came on this earth, it has happened. But it is in the old caves the saints who lived after Buddha have written that it is a spontaneous happening. But Buddha did not talk of God because He thought, “First talk of the Self. Because if you talk of God, people immediately start thinking they have become God. So better talk of Self; let them get their Self-realization. Unless and until they get Self-realization, how will they understand God?”

So they are called, He is called as Anishwar, means He doesn’t believe in God, an atheist: it’s not so. He just deliberately did it because He thought, if you talk of something far-fetched then people live in an imaginary world. So what He wanted practically to have Self-realization first, and then the knowledge about God. Because for a blind person, no use telling him about the whole thing, before first tell him that “you must have your vision.”

[Yogi: Any other questions?]

The other day we had one lady from Buddhist meditation, she couldn’t get her realization, I’m sorry to say, though we can work it out gradually; but she couldn’t get it. Because you see, Buddha resides within us, on this side here. And this is the portion gets very much swollen up when you do Buddhist meditation and we have to reduce it with certain mantras, otherwise you cannot reduce it. One has to work hard for such people – doesn’t matter. Because you are all seekers it’s your right to have it, and I am here to work for you. Any other question, please?

[Lady in audience comments on how people don’t want to know about the spirit.]

Yes, that’s the problem in England.

I know, I know. I know that’s the problem today is that they don’t want to know and they are very skeptical. But things are working out nicely now. You see, what it is after all, God is also anxious that people should get it. Now I’ll tell you how it’s working out. Like the other day, I was not there but My husband saw a program about a comedian who said that he gets a cool breeze –you see, he was talking about his revelation. He said, “Suddenly I started getting cool breeze in my back and I don’t know what it is, but I felt very relaxed and so many people feel relaxed when they sit together with me.” Now, he doesn’t know anything, he’s very vague about the cool breeze, but he, he felt it. That’s a revelation he gives.

Now just before that, a day, two days before, we were discussing amongst themselves and they said, “Mother, how many people you need to have that syndrome?” What is it called as?

[Yogi: The hundred monkey syndrome.]

Hundred monkey syndrome. I hope you have heard about it, that when the hundred monkey learnt a trick, every monkey everywhere started doing that trick, sort of a thing. I said, “It will be very soon.” And just imagine, this fellow started feeling this cool breeze on his back. Now he came on the television, and the television were very, very skeptical as you say – very, very. And I didn’t bother much about it. I said, “The time will come by itself” – because we don’t take any money, and we cannot pay any money for any such things. Now when somebody met them and told them that this program has taken place, there’s somebody who knows all about this thing, immediately they came to Me. And now they want Me to have a program. And once it starts like that, people will come round.

The trouble is, you see, human beings have so much of a barrier of their ego also. They are very insensitive people. Moreover, say, a traditional country like say, Rome, Egypt, I find they are much more sensitive to divinity than to absurd things. You’ll be surprised, in Rome now – we are sitting down here, so I can tell you – in Rome no guru has been successful. No guru has been successful. But when I went there, just seeing My photograph, just seeing My photograph the mayor was so amazed. He said “It’s divinity” – just seeing My photograph. And he took it over, he gave us a hall free, he published it and he made so many posters, he put it all over. And it’s working very well in Rome. But not in England. I have been here for ten years working hard, but English are rather hard people. Doesn’t matter, it will work out.

And then also in Egypt. Egypt is another place which are very traditional people. Another I have found is Greece. They are very traditional, and they – in tradition what happens, you start learning by making mistakes, you see. You believe in Rasputin, you believe in this and believe in that; and then you start understanding what is reality, how we’ll get it. And that’s how they come to it. But here just people read, read, read and they reach nowhere, they are so confused. I don’t blame them for all this. But I must say that they must come to terms with reality and try to understand that you cannot purchase it, first of all, and you cannot work for it. It is a spontaneous, living process of the living God. This is what we have to understand. And once we understand that it will work out, I’m sure. I understand that people are like that.

And you’ll be surprised, I’ve been working ten years in England and we don’t have so many Sahaja yogis as we have in other, other countries. Even France is better, surprisingly. Much better off, France, and Switzerland is much better. But England is the one that is lacking very much, and I’m working very hard here. India of course, is thousand times more. So it’s all right, it will come. English are that way very balanced – sometimes over-balanced, you see! One thing good about them, they know how to laugh at themselves. So it may work out.

[Audience question repeated by a yogi: She says that You said that the gurus often do more harm than good. How do we know that You may not be doing more harm than good?]

Yes, of course, may be, I may be doing, no doubt; you must keep that open. But you can talk to people who are …. Always, when you go to a guru – actually I’ve seen when you come to Me, you ask Me questions, but when you go to these people you go headlong, absolutely headlong. I’ve known people who paid six thousand pounds to go to Switzerland and eat only potato, water of the potato that is boiled. And they lived there without asking a question. That is one of the signs that you are free. Secondly, you must know that what others have been, others have been to Me, what has happened to them. Thirdly, you should know, why should I harm you? What is My advantage? Because I don’t take any money from you, nothing of the kind. By God’s grace, I’m living very well in My life. Perhaps I’m very well-off in life, I don’t need anything from anyone, so why should I do it? On another life where I am, I’m at a very high level, so why should I come to you? For what? What am I going to gain out of you?

So credibility must be established through the disciples. You never see the disciples. You just go headlong because you are mesmerized. You don’t even think about it. You don’t even ask questions. I asked them, “Why didn’t you ask questions, why are you taking six thousand pounds?”

“Oh,” they said, “Mother, we were walking under the blanket.”

And the person who was the head of that organization in Scotland became epileptic, his daughter became epileptic, his wife became epileptic, and he was – he then, then he came to Me. Then he came to Me in that state and I took him, them in My house to cure them.

So those people who have been to Me, like Dr. Warren has been: now he was a patient of high blood pressure, all kinds of things, he got cured – not only, he’s cured many people. And there are so many here who have been helped. People who used to, were alcoholics, drug addicts, this, all of them have become all right. So you must see them and see how they are, and you can see how they talk, how they know. But in any other guru’s place, they – it’s such a hierarchy you cannot even reach them. And somebody who talks is, remembers everything by heart and says something, there’s nothing spontaneous, nothing; they don’t know anything about it.

So credibility must be established first of all. But that you don’t do with anybody else, only with Me. That’s a good sign for Me, that I give you freedom.

[Yogi repeats question: She says that surely all paths lead to Rome. You were speaking about the Dalai Lama, and so what’s wrong?]

No, but some lead to hell also. We must know. Every doesn’t go to Rome, but can go to hell also. Of course, all paths lead to Rome if the person who takes you there is a right guide, is the right guide. You cannot go to hell and then, say, come back to Rome. You cannot. But the people who are right guides can do it. They don’t take any money, they don’t do. They give you realization. They make you something different. They make you righteous, virtuous and great people. It’s a very different thing: are not those who just profess something, or say something. They do not accumulate wealth. You see, they are self-respecting people, they are not parasites. They don’t live on your living.

How much did Christ earn? You have such a great example of Christ. Why do you go to anybody else? Did He take any money? He was sold for thirty rupees. What Christ has said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” I would like to know what Christians are there, which Christians have those eyes which are not adulterous. Have you got innocent eyes? There’s no lust and greed in your eyes? Face yourself up. Those who talk of these things have all those, much greater sins than what you have. How can they improve you? They are the ones who are living on others’ property, others’ money. Will you live on somebody else’s property and earnings? They are making the children to get out of their houses, sell their houses, go on the streets. Will you do that? For anyone? Taking money from the poor, will you do that? You are so good! Must understand. Use your brains.

But when you get realization, you develop those innocent eyes. The eyes are so powerful. Even looking at somebody with those eyes, you can give realization. You can cure them. Like the other day we had one – what was his name, the one who came to …? One journalist, you see, who came and who said that “It is said that You can cure people.”

I said, “All right.”

So he said, “There’s one lady who’s suffering from the disease of agoraphobia, and she doesn’t want to come out of her house, so how will You cure her?”

I said, “All right, if she cannot come, get Me her photograph; I can’t go to her house” – sort of challenging Me. I said, “All right, bring her photograph to Me.” He brought a photograph to Me. I just looked at the photograph.

“She’s like this for ten years,” he said; and he said, “You must cure her.”

I said, “All right, I’ll try. It’s very easy to cure this disease at least.” And I said, “You just leave her alone for eight days.” But he couldn’t, you see, resist, so he went like a C.I.D. there to find out what was going on. And when he went to her house she was not there. She was out on the move with her husband, having a nice stroll. And he’s now going to publish a very good article about it.

[Question: Do You see Yourself as a spiritual healer?]

No, not at all. Not a healer. I’m not a healer at all. I am a person who wants to give you Self-realization. It’s not question of spiritual healing. Spiritual healing are also two types: one of them is of course the people who are realized souls. Like the other day we went – of course, we met somebody. (Where was that, a taxi fellow who came with us?) [Yogi: In Nottingham.] Aah. The taxi gentleman who came in the car thing, I knew he was a realized soul. So he just started talking to Me. He also felt that nearness. And I said, “Do your fingers tingle sometimes?”

He said, “Yes, very much.”

I said, “Are you a healer?”

“Yes,” he said, “I’m a healer.” He said, “How do you know all about it?”

I said, “Do you feel very guilty?”

“Yes.”

“Oh,” I said, “I know that.”

He said, “How do you know?”

I said, “I know somehow. But you want to know about it.” Because he was a realized soul. He was a realized soul. But there are healers who are not realized souls. They are the people who use spirits. They shake before you and shout and – that’s very dangerous. A realized soul doesn’t have to do anything. Only touches you, you’ll be all right. He doesn’t have to shake and do all these tantrums.

Because you are so naive, I must say, that’s why there is such a problem. Very naive. In the West we have developed our tree very well, but not the roots. We don’t know anything about the roots. I was amazed Myself, because there’s no idea at all. Not in India – India people know this. They know this. Like we put dead in the church. In India nobody would put dead in the church – it’s a, is a holy place, how do you put the dead there? But this is what it is. You are naive, I know, and despite that, that naivety, you are also very adamant. Though what to do now: it’s a difficult question sometimes for Me. Doesn’t matter. It works out. Yes?

[Inaudible question.] What say?

[Yogi repeats: Could You explain what You mean by this energy rising through the spine? And isn’t it just really the same thing as a tingling up the spine, perhaps… (addressed to questioner: Do you mean of a more physical kind?)]

[Questioner: A feeling of awe.]

Yes. Feeling of …. Awe?

[Yogi: Yes, he’s relating the feeling that you might have up your spine to a feeling of awe, and perhaps saying it’s … ]

There is not, no – I have not known such a thing as that. I don’t know. That’s a – it doesn’t happen like that. You see, when the kundalini rises you don’t feel anything, nothing of the kind. Only thing you feel at top of your head a cool breeze. All right? And in the hands you feel a kind of a cool breeze coming out. But in the beginning you might feel little heat, because if you have too much heat in the body, then you might feel a little heat coming out. Sometimes people who are very nervous type shake a little, that’s all. But this thing I have never known, is some sort of a funny thing maybe coming from somewhere – I don’t know. All kinds of permutations and combinations I’ve seen happening to people.

Like one gentleman, he sat on the ground with the feet towards Me – in India is not done. So people said that “How can you put your feet towards Mother? It is not done.”

So he said, “No, my kundalini’s awakened and I’ll jump like a frog.”

I said, “Who told you?”

He showed Me a book of his guru, written down that you jump like a frog. Can you imagine? I asked him, “Will you, are you going to become a frog now?” All kinds of permutations and combinations: you don’t know how many things are there published all over the world.

[Yogi: Right, he wants to know how is this awakening initiated – the awakening of the kundalini.]

It’s very simple as I told you, just like sprouting of the seed. That’s My job. But then once I have done it, you have to do it also. All right? On that promise.

[Question: You say that false gurus and teachers can lead maybe to hell. Can You define hell?]

Now, at this good time, why do you want to know hell? You see, it is described very well if you read any one of these great poets. Specially I would say, read William Blake. All right? It’s already described so much, why do you want? I want, I want you to enter into the Kingdom of God. Hell is, when I’m saying “to hell”: you might get epilepsy. Now I’ve seen people getting epilepsy, people getting lunatic, leaving their homes, running away, hitting everyone, killing each other, killing themselves, killing their parents, violent, they take to drugs, take to all kinds of things which are self-destructive. What I mean is “self-destructive”, in one word. All right?

[Question: What about people who suffer from these things from birth?]

Yes. All right. If they suffer from this, there is something else is responsible. But they do suffer, isn’t it? But those who have not suffered and are normal and go to these gurus, pay money and get it, then at least you will hold these great gurus responsible, or not?

What is it, what is it?

[Question: Do you feel there are not any other gurus who are … ]

Oh, many! There are many. But they are not in the market. There are many, many more. Many there … beg pardon?

[Yogi: Are there any who can be beneficial to you?]

Beneficial to you? To anyone? Yes, they are. But just see now, in this crowd I’m talking to you, you’re asking ten questions. They have no patience. They have no patience at all. I tell you, they are so impatient, all these gurus, that you have no idea. They just can’t bear it. I asked one gentleman to go to America, with great coaxing and everything, because I had no time to go there. Within three days he ran away from there. He said, “I have no time for these stupid people.” Just he cancelled it, you see. Because I’m a Mother, I have patience for you. They have no patience for you. What am I to do? They are telling Me, “After twelve years we’ll come and help you, Mother.” They know Me very well. They are so many, so many. They have met some, but they don’t want to talk to people who are – they think they are stupid. What to do, now? They think all seekers are stupid people. What am I to do? They have no patience. You have to have a Mother to have patience, isn’t it?

[Yogi: Let’s finish here. Mother’s …]

Now. There’s no end to it, my child. These questions have no meaning. By asking questions you are not going to get realization, I must tell you. I cannot guarantee it. I cannot guarantee it. If you get it, it’s your luck. If you don’t get it, it’s your luck. So be careful. There’s no need to discuss, argue; by argument you are not going to get it. Listen to Me. What am I going to gain out of you? This is the first place where we have so many questions. Must be some Romans are around here, I think, reborn. Otherwise I can’t explain. I mean, nobody asked so many questions as you have asked Me which has no meaning. And supporting the, these fake gurus who have taken money from you, have disturbed so many people; supporting satanic forces. Something surprising, isn’t it? All right, doesn’t matter. Now, I have already told that I’m – now, that’s all. If you want Me to come back to Bath, please, no more questions now.

[Yogi: Let’s have the experience.]

But we’ll see how many get realization here. That’s the main point. Main point is not …. You are going to be judged by your kundalini – let’s see. Before you judge Me, she’s going to judge you. So let’s see how many of you get realization. I cannot promise you. That’s the main thing, I must tell you. All right. Let’s see how it works out.

Now whatever I have said, forget it. Let’s have a pleasant relationship. That is, you are not to feel any guilty about anything, whatever I have said. You might have been to guru, you might have done anything that’s supposed to be wrong – all right. Just forget it. Just now you sit in the present. You have to be in the present to get your realization – that’s the most important thing. You are born on this earth to be that, you are a human being to be that. You are not here just to waste your life. And that’s what I have to tell you as a Mother, that you have to be humble about it. It’s a very different realm you are in. It is nothing is selling here, it’s not a shop. And here, it’s a temple. And in a temple you have to be humble, and you have to get your realization: that should be your determination. But how many will get, that I cannot say. I’m sorry, but it’s not a thing that I can promise all of you. But if it works out on some, I’ll be very satisfied. That’s My job is.

Now let’s have very simple things, without asking any more questions. Now there’s no need to be disturbed about it. If you have not asked one question, nothing goes wrong with you or with audience. I tell you, even if you ask hundred questions it’s not going to make any difference. I must say, so far nobody has asked anything that is intelligent, and I think you’d better now give up asking questions. I’m bit too intelligent for that.

Now, let’s have it the way it has to work out. Let’s have it the way it has to work out. If you are seekers and if you are in the present, I’m sure you will get it. Now forget the past. Forget the past. One more thing I have to request, as I requested yesterday, that you are not to feel guilty about anything, because guilt comes from the past. So forget the past and you have to assert that you are not guilty. There are many people who are good, and they’ll get it. So you have to assert that “I’m not guilty.”

Now, you have to call Me as Shri Mataji when you address, which is difficult. You can call Me Mother, to make it simpler – whichever way you like. So you have to say “Mother, I’m not guilty,” just before starting this process. Now, we have to humble down in our hearts, because we want to enter into the Kingdom of God. But the one who is trying to do it, if you are all the time attacking that person, how will you go? How will you enter in? Just look at that. What is our attitude? Is it proper? It’s not being fair, not just.

All right. So we take out our shoes just to take help from the Mother Earth. One of the very important elements is the Mother Earth. And this kundalini is based in the sacrum bone, and the lower chakras are made from the element of Mother Earth. So just take out your shoes, very easily, to touch the Mother Earth with your feet. This Mother Earth is very important.

[Yogi: Anyone who doesn’t want the experience, please, you should leave now, anyone who doesn’t want …]

Leave. Don’t disturb others. You be kind. You have to be civil. You have to be civil people. Don’t disturb others. If you don’t want to have, well and good. It’s all right; you can go.

Those who were yesterday in Bristol know how much I have worked hard on so many people for hours together to give them realization. And it’s a thankless job. I tell you, it’s a thankless job; because unless and until you establish yourself, it’s such a waste, I feel, it’s a tremendous waste. Is just good for nothing, because you give them realization, they do not establish themselves and it’s just such a waste. Now, age does not matter, race does not matter, community does not matter. As long as you are a human being, it works out – is as simple as that.

So now you just have to put your hands straight on your lap, without feeling any discomfort while you are sitting. That’s important, because I do not want that your, you should feel uncomfortable, and by that you start moving about. Now, you have to take out your shoes, please, because as it is Tibetan problems are there. If you want to have realization, take out your shoes, all right? Yes, just take them out. It’s better. Socks, yes. Will be better because I want to work on you, definitely you are a seeker, all right? Put your hands like this. Yes.

Hmm. (Starting.) Now. Despite everything, it’s good. It’s not so bad.

Now, this left hand, as I told you, represents the left side, the emotional side; and the right side is the hand that represents the action. Now this is the desire that we have, the desire. So to put the desire hand on the left-hand side like this, straight all the time, when we have this process of giving relaxation to your chakras. Because some of the chakras are in augmented state and they are to be relaxed. You can do it yourself, and how you will do it I’ll just tell you. There are, on the left-hand side we’ll be touching those centers. Now one is in the heart where resides the spirit. Then one is in the upper part of the abdomen. And then another one in the lower part of the abdomen – all of them are on the left-hand side. Now, then one is here. This is the one you catch when you feel guilty. Like this, here, on the left-hand side of your neck. And then another one is here, and maybe here we may have to ask. And then you come up here on the fontanel bone area, where I’ll ask you to put the palm on top of your fontanel bone area. Just now it’s hot, but it will be all right. Let’s do it.

Now, it’s very simple. You have to keep your eyes shut throughout, because there’s no mesmerism, nothing like that. It has to happen within yourself. The attention is sucked in, and it’s better to keep your eyes shut, because if your eyes are open the kundalini may not rise. And it doesn’t trouble you, it doesn’t give you any problem – nothing of the kind; and you feel extremely relaxed, and you feel fine. All right. So now we close our eyes. First of all, please do not feel guilty for anything, even for asking questions or anything, don’t feel guilty. Whatever I have said, just forget it. Be kind to yourself. Be very kind to yourself. And you have to respect yourself.

Now, at this stage put your right hand on your heart, on the left-hand side. Left-hand side is the heart, so put your right hand on the heart. Now keep your eyes shut, and try to look within your heart, in the sense, put your attention to your heart and say – you have to ask now, Me, a real question which is the intelligent question. Ask a question, “Mother, am I the spirit?” Ask this question three times, “Mother, am I the spirit?” Ask this question three times, “Mother, am I the spirit?”

(Left is too much, it’s left … Hm.)

Now, raise this hand – I mean, lower this hand on the abdomen, on the upper part on the left-hand side. Lower this hand on the left-hand side, on the upper part of your stomach. Here is another center, the center of the Primordial Master. As you become, you become the spirit, you become the master, you become the guru. So now logically you have to ask another question, “Mother, am I my own master?” Ask a question, “Mother, am I my own master?” Ask the question three times. That’s a sensible question. You are your own master, you don’t need any master whatsoever. I’m not your master, I’m just your Mother, that’s all.

Now. After asking this question you lower your hand again, on the lower part of your abdomen. And this is a very important center which is called as Swadisthan, which looks after the aortic plexus in our being. Now, press the fingers in and say at this point – because at this point, I must confess, I cannot cross your freedom. You are free to choose. If you want to have the true knowledge, you have to ask for it, I cannot force on you. So you have to say, “Mother, please give me true knowledge, give me pure knowledge. I want pure knowledge, the technique of pure knowledge” which is the another meaning of the word “yoga.” You have to say this six times because there are six petals to this center. There are six also plexuses, sub-plexuses to the aortic plexus. (Terrible! Left Swadisthan.)

Hm – now. Again you are feeling guilty. Please don’t feel guilty. Please don’t feel guilty. Don’t feel guilty for anything. You have done nothing wrong. (Ah, now better.)

Now raise this hand again to the upper part of your stomach, where the center of the Primordial Master is. As you have asked for the technique, I will tell you, you have to at this center assert, to say, “I am my own master.” Just say that. You have to say ten times with full confidence, say, “Mother, I am my own master.” Because there are ten sub-plexuses, like ten valencies, we have these ten plexuses. Aah! Forget your masters. And forget all the slavery. Hah! All right. (All right. Good.) Ten times.

Now, raise this right hand to your heart, again to your heart. Here resides your spirit. Again in the technique, you assert – this is the mantra you have to say at this point, “Mother, I am the spirit.” In all humility, in all your glory you accept, assume. “Mother, I am the spirit.” (It’s good, very good.) You have to say this twelve times. But don’t feel guilty.

Now I have to tell you that God is the ocean of love. He’s the ocean of compassion. But best of all, He is the ocean of forgiveness. So please don’t feel guilty, because what sin can you commit that He cannot forgive? We are challenging His power of forgiveness when we feel guilty. Please don’t feel guilty. Without feeling guilty, say “Mother, I am the spirit.” ( Come down. All right. Ah, it’s better.) Twelve times, because there are twelve petals. (Left Nabhi. It’s more on the left, it’s all right. There’s nothing on the right. Ah! Better. But left Nabhi is too much. It moves from here.)

Now, move this hand upward and put it, the right hand – you have to move the right hand, left hand towards Me – put it on the left-hand side of your neck. At the base, touching almost the left side of your spinal cord and pressing it a little with it. At this point, from the front – you have to do it, take the hand from the front, not from the back but from the front side – hold it tight. Here now you have to say, with full confidence, with all love and understanding about yourself, “Mother, I am not guilty.” Please say that, sixteen times. And if you are too much of it, you’d better say it hundred-and-eight times to punish yourself, if you are too indulgent in that kind of a thing! (It’s good. It’s rising up to the Agnya. Ah!)

Now raise this hand on top, on top of your forehead across. And hold it, your forehead. At this point – you know, as I told you, is the center of Christ – you have to forgive everyone. Some people might say, “It’s very difficult, Mother, how can we forgive?” But it’s a myth that you do not forgive anyone or you forgive anyone, because when you do not forgive, you suffer, not the other. So please say, “Mother, I forgive everyone.” You’ll be surprised, when you say that from your heart, this center will open out.

(Better.) Now, if you are still feeling guilty, it’s better that you put your hand at the back of your head. Hold it tight – all of you should do it – and once for all say, “Oh Lord, forgive me if I have done any mistakes.” Just once for all; but don’t feel guilty after saying that, or not before also. Just say that “Oh Lord, forgive me if I have said anything wrong or if I have done anything wrong against You.” Hold your back, back of your head. Back of your head – as they call it, the optic lobe. Three times. But don’t feel guilty. Please don’t feel guilty. That’s very important. (Go to the guilt again. All better. Hm – rising.)

Say from your heart that “if I have done anything wrong” – now don’t count that, just say it in general. Don’t count what you have done wrong, whatever you have done wrong. Please don’t count. Just say, “If I have done anything wrong, please forgive me.” That’s all. Because you are the spirit; and if you are the spirit, what wrong can you do? You have to just become the spirit, that’s all. You come out of the mud like a lotus. (Hah!)

Now, put this hand on top of your head on the fontanel bone area which was soft in the childhood, which is called as taloo. Now press it with your palm and move your scalp. At this point again – the another part of yoga – I cannot cross your freedom, because you have to ascend in your own freedom and glory. So you have to say that you want your realization, and that I should give you that realization. So you have say, “Mother, I want my realization. Please give me realization.” And that you have to say seven times because there are seven centers, the seat of seven centers, in the brain. Now. And push it hard and move it clockwise. Push that part hard and – with your palm.

Now put down your hand, please, down below. And lift your left hand, and see if there’s a cool breeze coming out. Move it up and down. Pay attention there. About four inches or five inches there – just move it up and down. Now put the another hand. Now see with that hand. On top of your head.

(It’s all … Because so many Sahaja yogis are sitting there; but I don’t know these people if they are feeling it.) Now put another hand like that.

[Blowing into microphone.] (It’s like a mountain.)

Change your hands please, again. [Blowing into microphone.] Do you feel the cool breeze?

Now, for your information, we have many people who are realized souls who have come to Bath. And they will have a look at you. You can put your hands like this. Those who are not feeling the cool breeze, raise your hands first of all. Raise them high. All right. Come along now. Sahaja yogis should come and see them. Are you feeling the cool breeze? In the head? In the head. Are you feeling relaxed? Good, good. What about you, from the Tibetan thing? Caleb – he’s good, good, good, he’s done well!

Caleb, see this one from the Tibetan one. He’s a seeker, out and out. He’s got it? No? He’s been to some guru, I … Just see their chakras, is what are catching is. Just work on the chakras. Ah, better. It’s better now. But in the hands you have to feel. Now keep your hands like this. Hands you must feel it. Beg pardon? … It becomes cooler. First it is hot. Hands are hot now? All right. Now this is a miracle, isn’t it? Now, you put your left hand on your stomach, here. No, this side. Right hand towards Me, yeah. Now, it’s good.

She’s feeling the hot, that’s all. But she’ll get it. Just she will be … no, put her on the liver – left hand on the liver, yes. He is himself a doctor, you see. Did she get, this lady who was asking questions? What do you say? No? Warm? What’s, where is she catching? He’s feeling it? Good, good. That’s nice. A Vishuddhi he has. He has a Vishuddhi. Let him ask if he – “I am the part and parcel of the whole” will work out with him, because the Vishuddhi is catching. [Hindi]

Is she? God, thank God, now! All right. Yes, what is it? (So much of left, I tell you, really.)

Hmm. What about you, why didn’t you work? What do you say? Caleb? Anybody who has not felt it, please raise your hands. They have come all the way to help you, some of them have come from north country. Yes, sir. Someone there. Can you see there?

You all just watch Me without thinking. Just watch Me without thinking.

He’s got it? Good. I’m very happy. What about you ladies? You got it? Good. Look at them. Such wise people. May God bless.

Just watch Me without thinking. It will work out better.

He’s got it? Good. I’m very happy. What about you ladies? You got it? Good. Look at them. Such wise people. May God bless.

Just watch Me without thinking. It will work out better.

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